Posted by Achilles on July 17, 2001 at 17:32:02:
In Reply to: Re: Orthodoxy vs. Ancient Hellenic Religion? (NOT !!!) posted by Themistokles on July 17, 2001 at 00:56:54:
Themistocles wrote:
Would the pre-Christian belief system that you are referring to the same one that Socrates was fighting against for nearly 50 years before the so-called liberal minded Athenians tried him for sedition (and subsequently executed him) ?
Here is some information I collected which I thought you might like:
Christian Methods of Showing Love
AKA TORTURE
The purpose of TORTURE is to cause severe pain. It could be a means to the end, death, and it is generally a slow and agonizing event for the victim. Christian ingenuity was without bounds. Thus, in the name of Jesus, they were always finding better methods of showing their Christian Love to those who opposed their dogma, those who wanted individual freedom. Today the Christians call this freedom free will since their dogma can no longer conduct such inhumane acts without criminal repercussions.
What were the reasons the church fanatically sanctioned TORTURE?
To force confessions or gather secret information from Heretics. Can you say NAZISM?
To intimidate and dispose of intellectual freedom and dissent. Can you say DARK AGES?
To inspire non-believers to accept Christianity.
"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Mark 12:31
"There is neither Jew nor Greek ... for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
The bible is so big that at this time in history they hadn't yet made it to those passages, ya think?
What occurred during this era was accepted because of the mind set of the believers. Today we call them fanatics and as Randal Terry (founder of Operation Rescue) has demonstrated,
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
fundamentalism in control will send us back to these times, when a person's life was worthless to those who have an invisible guy in the sky fogging their brain. Then there's Bill McCartney, founder and leader of Promise Keepers, who says,
"We just gotta make sure that the Constitution doesn't find itself in violation of God's Law."
My response to these Funda"MENTAL"ists:
1. With so many Christian religions and interpretations from a book with contradictions, absurdities, and a god with a forked tongue, i.e. You shall not kill but many murders by god and his people, who is to say what God's law is?
2. If you want a Christian run country where fear is the norm, GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE! Anarctica is waiting for you! God Will provide for you! Read your damn buybull! Matthew 6:25-34
References:
Black & White Images are from Hirsch, A.E., ed., The Book of Torture and Executions (Toronto: Golden Books, 1944).
1 From:"Inquisition- A Bilingual Guide to the exhibition of Torture Instruments presented in various European Cities-by Robert Held- Qua d'Arno, Publisers/Editorial, Florence, Italy, 1985
2 From:"The Inquisition" by A. Hyatt Verrill, D. Appleton and Company, New York, London, 1931), pp. 138-148
3 From: "Trewlicher Bericht eynes scrocklichen Kindermords beym Hexensabath...(etc.) a newsletter in 8vo, Hamburg, 12th June 1607.
I would love to return and mention a few points that you, as evidently quite ignorant (with all due respect) about the way that Christianity was embraced by Hellenes as a liberating philosophy
Please do! what’s your version?
(which pre-Christian society in Hellas held men and women as equals ?),
Have you ever heard of Hypatia of Alexandria, or the brutal death which she suffered from the Early Christians?
Mathematician, Astronomer, and Philosopher (d. 415 C.E.)
Hypatia was a mathematician, astronomer, and Platonic philosopher. According to the Byzantine encyclopedia The Suda, her father Theon was the last head of the Museum at Alexandria.
Hypatia's prominence was accentuated by the fact that she was both female and pagan in an increasingly Christian environment. Shortly before her death, Cyril was made the Christian bishop of Alexandria, and a conflict arose between Cyril and the prefect Orestes. Orestes was disliked by some Christians and was a friend of Hypatia, and rumors started that Hypatia was to blame for the conflict. In the spring of 415 C.E., the situation reached a tragic conclusion when a band of Christian monks seized Hypatia on the street, beat her, and dragged her body to a church where they mutilated her flesh with sharp tiles and burned her remains.
Her works include:
A Commentary on the Arithmetica of Diophantus
A Commentary on the Conics of Apollonious
She edited the third book of her father's Commentary on the Almagest of Ptolemy
Local Resources
The Life of Hypatia from The Suda. This is the first ever English translation of this important source.
The Life of Hypatia by Socrates Scholasticus. This biography tells the story of her murder.
The Life of Hypatia by John, Bishop of Nikiu. This Christian writer spoke with approval of the murder of Hypatia because "she was devoted at all times to magic, astrolabes, and instruments of music."
Recommended Reading
"Hypatia: Mathematician, Astronomer, and Philosopher" by Nancy Nietupski in Alexandria 2. An admirable discussion of the known facts and implications.
Hypatia of Alexandria by Maria Dzielska. Harvard: Harvard University Press, 1995.
one that freed her from centuries of fraternal warfare because of the emphasis on the psyche as well as the nous.
???....Incoherent!
Finally, for today, I must add that only those completely ignorant in the history of Orthodoxy would not know that the early Church Fathers were as important - in the world of philosophy - as many of the pre-Christian sophists.
With Christian love,
Themistokles
During the Christian Era of course they would be.
Nevertheless, at what expense did the early church fathers gain that level of academic recognition, which the pre-Christian Sophists received?
In case you missed this link earlier: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/3470/persec.htm
With freedom of thought,
Achilles