Posted by Joanna on January 27, 2001 at 07:27:42:
In Reply to: Re: Come on...MHN ANHSYXISEIS GIWPGO posted by Giorgos on January 25, 2001 at 10:27:10:
: Joanna,
: I will disagree with you in some things.
: With your sayings I should be heading straight to hell by now. Somehow, I think I might escape this one!!
: I wanna consider myself a good man, I have many faults as well of course, but this is just natural. God will not judge you on what you did, but on what your motives were, that is why as you said you cannot blame everything on people that may be acting in a specific way out of their ignorange.
: Now as far as people in church etc, I will say that if you go to any weddings in Athens, not only the women wear make up, but it has become the no 1 catwalk. The same happens whenever you go to church in main celebrations etc, it's more like a social gathering.
: As far as sex before marriage is concerned, society has moved on and the church as well as the people have to conform to today's society.
: If I have a beautiful relationship with a woman, it makes me and her happy, I do not see anything wrong with that and nor does God. I can be monogamous with that woman and maybe in several years I marry her as well, would I still be considered a sinner or will my sin be erased?
: Unfortunately (or fortunately!!) in modern society in order to be able and marry and have a proper family, you need first of all to have a some sort of finacial background that can help you support this family. Under these circumstances you need to study first, spend two years in the army (for the Greeks at least) and a couple of years of profesional experience. This doesn't automatically mean that you cannot have relations with the opposite sex untill you've reached 30!! Now in the old ages you would marry and be working at 17 because that was the only way...
: Now as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't go to church in earings etc, because I respect the church as establishment (also i wouldn't do that even at work). However, this doesn't mean that by wearing an earing if I like and listening to rock ("the devil's music" as it was once characterised) that makes me a sinner...
: Filika,
: Giorgos
Giorgo,
On this one I think we have to agree to disagree. I will respond to each of your paragraphs above in order.
Unfortunately many if not most people will be going to hell. Hell is already full of people. The Virgin Mary requested that the Archangel Michael take her to see Hell prior to her dormition (koimisis). The things she saw and how the people were suffering in the different parts of hell are terrible. She was so sad and felt such great pity that she begged her Son to give them some relief. Our Lord Jesus Christ listened to his mother (remember she is the most holy Saint and our intercessor -presvevei) and gave the souls 40 days of relief. This happens once a year after the Resurrection at Easter.
God will judge everyone on their words, deeds (praxeis) and thoughts. BUT everyone will be judged independently according to what they know and what they did with that knowledge. If you do something bad (a sin) out of ignorance you will be judged more lightly but if you know what is right and wrong but do the wrong (sin) anyway you will be condemned. And this stands for both christians and non-christians. Your level of conscience will be taken into account. And as for "faults", each person has to try and overcome these. It's good that you can recognise them but the next step is to overcome them and if you don't try hard you will be judged on them.
I know what you mean about the church becoming like a "cat-walk" on special events -that is, women wearing makeup etc. But this still does not make it right. It makes me very sad to see this phenomena in church but like I said the church cannot reject it's members on the basis of ignorance and I emphasise that the Church prays and hopes that these things will be overcome.
We ARE all part of modern society. WE make up society. Just because the people around me do certain things does NOT mean I will also do those things. It doesn't matter if it's the year 2001 or 3001 God's laws and what He expects of us will NEVER change. They have NOT changed for 2000 years and actually His expectations of us have ALWAYS been the same since he created Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve gave into temptation in the garden of Eden and were punished for their DISOBEDIENCE by being thrown out. If we disobey God, He will punish us also. He punishes many people on earth while they still live which will hopefully make them repent before their time of death comes. If they don't repent they will be condemned. I repeat sex outside of marriage is a sin -always has been and always will be. The people of Soddom and Gomorrah (of the Old Testament) acted EXACTLY the same way as "society" does today. They were having sex outside of marriage, incest, rape, homosexuality -the whole lot. God destroyed both those cities.
Why be in a monogamous relationship and not be married in the first place? But to answer you question about your sin being erased if you do get married later. It won't be unless you confess to a priest (as with all sins -even if we stop doing them). So by finally marrying the woman you will cease to commit that sin (of having sex outside of marriage) BUT you still have to confess your previous sinning in order for it to be erased. Confession of sins wipes them out and you don't have to answer for them when you die. So confession is EXTREMELY important. And there's nothing wrong with not having sex until you're older. There's nothing wrong with remaining a virgin until you die. What's wrong is having sex outside of marriage at whatever age you are.
And as for not having enough money to get married and start a family (until later). This I don't believe. If you have faith in God He will help you with everything!!! Lack of money is NO excuse not to get married. If you go up to a priest and say 'Father I don't have enough money to pay for the church to get married but I want to'. He will not tell you to go away. It is his duty to marry you whatever your financial circumstances. And please I don't want to hear 'but I don't have money for the wedding reception -kai tha gino koroido'. Wedding receptions are totally unimportant. It's the church ceremony (a holy sacrament) that's important. If people gossip that they weren't invited and that no reception was held -then let them. They will have to answer for their gossip. And another thing if the impoverished people in Africa, India and Asia can have so many children on so little money (if any) then we certainly don't have any excuse whatsoever on not getting married and having kids until we're "financially stable".
Giorgo, I know I've written heaps and heaps but I had alot to tell and explain to you. Remember, the things of God are important NOT what "society" expects of us. Because we will not answer to society in the end but to God. When we die everything we have will be left behind (even our flesh) but NOT our unconfessed and unrepented sins. The less they are the better. God bless you and may He enlighten you.